Editing Template talk:Pp (section)

== Weird practice amongst administrators ==

Hey! I've been clearing up [[:Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates|a protection related category]] for a while now, and during that, I've noticed that quite a lot of uses of the {{tl|pp}} template (or similar) include a <code>|reason=</code> parameter (like [[Special:Diff/1078211641|here]]). However, based off of what I've seen at [[Special:ExpandTemplates]] and in the module code, this parameter has absolutely ''no effect'' on the output. Why is it being used? Protection reasons are provided by the protection log so I wouldn't think that is why, and even if it was, most editors would not notice the text. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 12:36, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

:Looking at the code, it appears to do two things. 1) If |small=yes is not specified, it adds a "due to vandalism" etc. to the displayed banner. 2) It places the page in a hidden category such as [[:Category:Wikipedia pages semi-protected against vandalism]] instead of a more generic category. Please note that you can't just put any reason, you need to use the language codes specified in the documentation, e.g. [[Template:Pp#Reasons]] –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 12:54, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::{{ping|Novem Linguae}} Thing is - I tried doing stuff like {{tlx|pp|2=reason=blp}}, but it would just display the default message. Only something like {{tlx|pp|blp}} or {{tlx|pp-blp}} would work. Thats why I'm confused over the use of <code>|reason=</code> - It's not that its being used wrong, its that as, as far as my testing went, it has 0 functionallity in any use. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 12:56, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:::Ah, you're right. I assumed that reason= and 1= were the same, but looks like it only likes 1=. Anyway, can you provide some diffs of reason=? I am curious if an automated tool such as Twinkle is adding them, if so we can work on a patch so the tool stops using reason=. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 13:25, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::::Sure, no problem. Give me some time, I'll go through my previous removals of it and see if theres a pattern. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 13:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Novem Linguae}} Oh wow. After taking a look at all my edits related to protection, it seems the majority of the cases were <code>|reason=</code> was used were by [[User:Deepfriedokra|Deepfriedokra]], who I'll ping so they can take a read of this. (If you want to check yourself, just see any triple-digit diff on [https://sigma.toolforge.org/summary.py?name=Aidan9382&search=Page+protection&server=enwiki&max=500&ns= this contribution search]). However, all of those edits were ''also'' marked with the Twinkle tag, and after looking further, I've seen a different admin [[Special:Diff/1084008060|doing the same thing]] with twinkle, so it may be worth looking into. I've literally never used twinkle so I have no clue how the process works through it, so whether the root cause of the issue is human error or the tool providing it as an option is completely beyond me. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 13:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::::::The diff is tagged Twinkle, so not Deepfriedokra's fault. [https://github.com/wikimedia-gadgets/twinkle/issues/1608 I opened a bug report over at Twinkle] just now. I'll write a patch for it eventually, gonna work on some other patches first though. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 13:59, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::::I just use the twinkle. I thought there was a bot that removed expired protection templates. Perhaps my adding a custom message is confusing the bot or the script.  --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 15:39, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::::::::What makes it "incorrect?"  --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 15:40, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::{{ping|Deepfriedokra}} The <code>|reason=</code> parameter has no functionallity within neither the template nor module, and therefore doesn't need to be added alongside the protection template. That explenation should be in the protection log anyways. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 17:01, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::::::::::So my custom add?  --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 17:54, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::::Sorry, what? [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 18:06, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::::::In [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Diff/1084008060 this diff], Twinkle placed the code <syntaxhighlight inline lang="text">{{pp-protected|reason=Persistent [[WP:Disruptive editing|disruptive editing]]; requested at [[WP:RfPP]]|small=yes}}</syntaxhighlight>, but should have placed the code <syntaxhighlight inline lang="text">{{pp-protected|small=yes}}</syntaxhighlight>. The parameter $1 is allowed, but has to use [[Template:Pp#Reasons|one of the codes in the documentation]], and "disruptive editing" is not one of them. The parameter $reason isn't read by the template at all. The bug seems 100% on Twinkle's side, and is pretty minor, so I wouldn't worry about it. Keep doin what you're doin and we will fix it in the background. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 18:47, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

=== Pp userspace bug? ===
(Side comment) About your use of the vandalism category as an example, when i used {{tlx|pp|vandalism}} as a test on my user page, it used the baseplate user page category and not the specific vandalism one, but the blp category would be used over the user page one. I'll probably investigate whats going on there, since I've got no idea why theres a difference. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 13:00, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:Unable to reproduce. Doesn't display at all for me. I think the banner doesn't display if it doesn't detect any page protection. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 13:26, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::Try doing <code><nowiki>{{pp}}</nowiki></code>, <code><nowiki>{{pp|blp}}</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>{{pp|vandalism}}</nowiki></code> at [[Special:ExpandTemplates]]. Set the context title to <code>User:Aidan9382/SafeEnvironmentTesting</code> (semi-protected for this very purpose) so that the banner actually works and see the output categories. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 13:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
:::Was able to reproduce. Userspace <syntaxhighlight inline lang="text">{{pp|vandalism}}</syntaxhighlight> is not placing in [[:Category:Wikipedia pages semi-protected against vandalism]]. Pretty minor, but if someone wants to fix it, go for it (assuming it's not intentional for some reason lost in history :) The bug is likely in a module somewhere, e.g. [[Module:Protection banner]] or [[Module:Protection banner/config]]. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 13:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
::::It's nothing to do with the namespace, the {{tlx|pp}} template intentionally displays nothing on a page that's not protected. Instead, it puts the page into hidden {{cl|Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates}}. The reason for this is partly so that it doesn't get used by people who think that the template alone is enough to confer protection, and partly so that the banner or padlock indicator vanish when the prot expires. If you want, I can set up some subpages of [[Template:Pp/testcases]] having different prot levels so that the messages may be demoed. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 05:45, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::The test page we were using to reproduce the bug, [[User:Aidan9382/SafeEnvironmentTesting]], is semi-protected. Placing <syntaxhighlight inline lang="text">{{pp|vandalism}}</syntaxhighlight> on [[User:Aidan9382/SafeEnvironmentTesting]] does not place in [[:Category:Wikipedia pages semi-protected against vandalism]], but a mainspace protected page such as [[Abraham Lincoln]] does. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 05:49, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::::::But it does categorise into hidden {{cl|Wikipedia semi-protected user and user talk pages}}, and also displays either a padlock icon or a banner, depending upon whether you used {{para|small|yes}} or not. That banner or icon is the primary purpose of [[Module:Protection banner]], which is the core of [[Template:Pp]], any categorisation is a sideline. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:51, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::::This is apparently intentional, see [[Module:Protection_banner/config#L-755|Module:Protection_banner/config line 755]]. This can be ignored, as its not a bug. Sorry for any confusion caused there. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 20:05, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
:::::Other codes such as blp in userspace place in the blp category though. But eh, sentiment seems to be that it's not worth fixing. All good. –[[User:Novem Linguae|<span style="color:limegreen">'''Novem Linguae'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]])</small> 20:11, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
::::::Yeah, its all about order. If its higher on that list it takes effect earlier (or at least its ordered that way). To "fix" it, the order would need to be changed, but I doubt its worth it, per [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=hastemplate%3APp-blp&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%22fields%22%3A%7B%22hastemplate%22%3A%5B%22Pp-blp%22%5D%7D%7D&ns2=1&ns3=1 this search] (I just removed [[User:RandomStringOfCharacters|the only entry]]). [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] <sub>([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])</sub> 20:15, 22 June 2022 (UTC)